Johnny Driggers 16 Jul 2008

This man had a wrong understanding of what it is to be good in Gods eyes,

proverbs 20:6 Most men will proclaim every one his own goodness: but a faithful man who can find?

so Jesus gave him five of the ten commandments, because the law brings the knowledge of sin.

Romans 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

psalm 19:7 The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul:

Galatians 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

this man still thought he himself a good person, but we know that none of us have kept the law.

So Jesus gave him the essence of the first and second commandment by showing him that his god was money.

when Jesus said "It's terribly hard for the rich to get into God's kingdom! In fact, it's easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich person to get into God's kingdom." I think he was commenting on how hard it is to repent, in fact a person can't without God, and He uses the law to bring godly sorrow,

2 corrinthians 7:10 For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.

The man either didn't believe Jesus or he just wasn't alarmed about his true state and didn't humble himself.

unlike the woman at the well when Jesus pointed out her sin using the seventh commandment,

listen to "Hells best kept secret" here http://www.livingwaters.com/learn

Anneke Hut 17 Jul 2008

I had not read Corinthians yet, I liked to read it, I think I will read all the chapters soon, thank you for pointing at it, Johnny.

I agree with you that this man didn't understand untill Jesus told him, but then he understood he would never be able to do what is told.

What concerns me is, how difficult it often is to live by the commandments and how soon we say that all this is written in a different time and that all has changed now. I don't believe that, I think God means exactly what he is saying in the bible.

Renounce all possessions in today's life, that is what's meant here.

"There's one thing you still need to do. Go sell everything you own. Give the money to the poor, and you will have riches in heaven. Then come with me."

That's clear language! How can this be done in reality? If I would just do it, what would it mean? I would have no house, no car, no work as I wouldn't have any opportunity to get there? I can't visit or call my family. No cats, because I can't feed them?

Jesus said to the man, when you have nothing left, then come with me. And the disciples say, we have left everything to follow you. They are talking to Jesus who is physically there. What would have happened when Jesus hadn't been there in their company, would they still have given away all their possessions without a person to follow? If we are standing in the open air without anything at all, what way to go?

I know that there is written in the bible in Luke 12 that God will always take care of us, but I'm just scared. And it hurts me that I'm scared, because it means that I don't trust God enough to do as He asks.

I don't think God likes it when I don't trust him, while he has promised to take care of all his children. I also think that I'm a coward often, finding an excuse in saying when it gets difficult, this is a different time than the times of the bible where Jesus asked the rich man to renounce everything he had. Do you do that too? Do you think that the people in the bible wouldn't miss their donkey as much as I'd miss my car? Or miss their homes as I would miss mine?

I don't know anyone who has given away all possessions and is just praying and waiting for things to come, do you? I just can't fit it into real life. I wish someone could explain this to me. I can pray every day, my Lord in Heaven I believe in your word, I believe that Jesus will return and that the chosen ones will go with Him into God's House. But when it comes to living by these words, and do what Jesus asks, where am I standing then?

How do you see this?

Johnny Driggers 21 Jul 2008

Hey Anneke,

I don't think Jesus wants us to sell all we have, it could be that command was just for the rich man because his riches were in the way of him following Jesus. I don't know I haven't really studied it or heard any teaching on it. I do believe that everything we own should belong to the Lord though.

Later in the book of Acts they sell all their possessions and put the money together and distribute it as needed. But they weren't commanded to. When Ananias lied about how much he sold his land for Peter said to him in Acts 5:4 "Didn't it belong to you before it was sold? And after it was sold, wasn't the money at your disposal? What made you think of doing such a thing? You have not lied to men but to God."

you said "I don't think God likes it when I don't trust him, while he has promised to take care of all his children. I also think that I'm a coward often, finding an excuse in saying when it gets difficult, this is a different time than the times of the bible where Jesus asked the rich man to renounce everything he had. Do you do that too? Do you think that the people in the bible wouldn't miss their donkey as much as I'd miss my car? Or miss their homes as I would miss mine?"

I think you may like to read the biography of George Muller. He took what Jesus said seriously in Luke 12 and he fed, housed and cared for thousands of orphans as well as supporting a group of missionaries without ever asking anyone for money. Sometimes he had no money and no food before dinner but they never missed a meal because God always came through.

He decided he would rely completely on God and over the years he prayed in millions of dollars and built several orphan houses and never asked for a dime, some televangelists could learn a thing or two from him.

Anneke Hut 22 Jul 2008

Hi Johnny, thank you for your reaction! I have found the biography of George Müller, looks very interesting. I will read it and come back to it. :)

Have a nice day! Anneke

Anneke Hut 23 Jul 2008

I have made a short excerpt of this book to show what kind of man Müller was, it's here:

http://www.annekehut.nl/anneke/other/georgemuller.html

But I can recommend to read this whole book to everyone! You can read it online here:

http://www.biblebelievers.com/george_muller/index.html

It shows that God let's us play for a while, even enjoying the bad sides of life but that He leads our path when His time has come. That we are often directed by Him, as George was when his friend Beta invited him to the friend’s house.

I must say that besides it’s very interesting to read about the life of George Müller, this book is of great value for the thoughts of the author Arthur T. Pierson also. He gives wonderful insight and thoughts about God, the bible and the spirit of faith. As a matter of fact I'm also very curious about the life of this Arthur Pierson. He writes:

The worker for God must first be a worker with God: he must have power with God and must prevail with Him in prayer, if he is to have power with men and prevail with men in preaching or in any form of witnessing and serving. At all costs let us make sure of that highest preparation for our work-- the preparation of our own souls; and for this we must take time to be one with His word and His Spirit, that we may truly meet God, and understand His will and the revelation of Himself.

If we seek the secrets of the life George Müller lived and the work he did, this is the very key to the whole mystery, and with that key any believer can unlock the doors to a prosperous growth in grace and power in service. God's word is HIS WORD - the expression of His thought, the revealing of His mind and heart. The supreme end of life is to know God and make Him known; and how is this possible so long as we neglect the very means He has chosen for conveying to us that knowledge! Even Christ, the Living Word, is to be found enshrined in the written word. Our knowledge of Christ is dependent upon our acquaintance with the Holy Scriptures, which are the reflection of His character and glory, the firmament across the expanse of which He moves as the Sun of righteousness.

Johnny, thank you very much for telling about this book, it was a joy to read! :)

May you all have a blessed day, Anneke

Johnny Driggers 24 Jul 2008

You sure are a fast reader Anneke, I'm glad you enjoyed it. The biography I read was written by a different author, but I'll read the one you posted as soon as I get my internet straitened out, (I'm posting this from someone else's computer).

It really stirs your faith to read about God working in someones life so strongly.

God bless.

James Anderson 10 Aug 2008

Hello, Just thought that I would also get into this conversation. The first thing Christ did was challenge the man to recognize that He was not just a man but God in flesh, when he said "Why do you call me good, no man is good but God Himself." In one of the Gospel accounts of this it says that Christ loved him. Christ recognized that what this man said about himself was true in how he thought himself to be, although it probably wasn't accurate because no man can fully keep all the commandments. Yes, He challenged him to give up all his possesions and follow Him, because Christ knew that he had a great love for wealth. Christ does not tell us all to give up everything we have but is a challenge to us not to have a love for money or the things of this world. The Bible teaches over and over again that the root of all evil is the LOVE of money. There are many saints in the Old Testament and New Testament that were rich by God's Blessing. Abraham, Jacob, Essau, David, Mary-Martha and Lazarus (whom Jesus raised from the dead) just to name a few. It was a Jewish understanding that to be rich was a sign that God was particularly pleased with you and was favored to go to heaven. That is why the Apostles were so very astounded at the words of Christ that it was harder for a rich man to get into heaven then for a camel to go through the eye of a needle. The needle refered to here is a very small opening in a city wall that would only allow for only one man at a time to enter on his knees. This was used when the city gate was closed at night.

Anneke Hut 11 Aug 2008

Hello James, thank you for joining this discussion. It's good to read your words, I agree very much with you. I believe that money is the best of all Satan's inventions. There should be printed a big 666 on all credit cards, to warn people and to make them think!

Money makes many people ugly, enemies for others. I have seen people turning from kind and giving humans into greedy and selfish persons once they became rich. Like the taste of money is addictive, once they've got it they want more and more, in my view it has certainly satanic power.

I do absolutely believe that people like George Müller, who resist to work for money, who take Jesus' words literally and live only for others, will be helped when they pray to God. I must admit that I'm too much of an coward to try it out. :)

I agree that in the bible there are rich people, like Job, who are true children of God. Satan said that Job was protected by God, so this implies that it didn't bother God that Job was a wealthy man. It's actually quite funny, when we see a rich man, we say he is blessed. Still this man will have a lot of worries to stay rich. When I see the happiness of George Müller then I think he is really blessed!

Now that I have been thinking more about the words of Jesus to the rich man and have read your opinions, I came to the conclusion that the meaning of these words are that we must be willing to give everything up when Jesus asks us. We may never say, oh no, I've got too much to loose to give it all up! Jesus wants us to realise that what we've got to loose on earthly possessions is nothing compared to the love of God. That our life here on earth only exists to prepare ourselves to enter our heavenly home with Jesus. What can be worth more than that?

James, interesting story about the needle, I didn't know it. Thank you! :)

Have a nice day everyone! Anneke

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